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Monthly Archives: November 2011

Deity of Christ: James White on the Dividing Line

After the James White-Patrick Navas debate over at Christ Date’s Theopologetic podcast, David Barron from ScripturalTruths shared some of his thoughts and comments online for those interested. Now it seems that James White has taken the time (2 hours!) to respond to Barron’s comments over at his Dividing Line podcast.

I’m sure there’ll be more dialogue to come…

 
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Posted by on November 29, 2011 in James White

 

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Septuagintal Psalms & their Davidic Superscripts

In the Septuagint there are several Psalms that are headed with superscripts that are not found in the Masoretic Text. In particular, there are several septuagintal Psalms there are said to be associated with David. The Psalms, as found in the Septuagint, are 32, 42, 70, 90, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 103, 136. (The numbers vary in the MT)

The above 13 Septuagintal Psalms are tagged with Davidic superscripts. The issues lies, however, in their ambiguity. It is unclear whether these psalms were understood to be about David, or written to David, or written by David. It seems that perhaps these Psalms were to be taken in combination: some written by him and others about him and others to him.

Though some of the superscripts are ambiguous in terms of their grammar (whether they were written to or by or about David), what is clear  is that the LXX had a rather exalted view of king David and the Davidic lineage in general. I wonder if perhaps the exegesis of the Septuagintal Psalms had an impact on the earliest Christians in terms of their application of exalted language to Christ, given the exalted language used in relation to David and Davidic kings in the LXX (especially in the Epistle/Sermon to the Hebrews)?

 
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Posted by on November 28, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

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David Worship(p)ed by Angels?

In the Septuagint Psalm 97 (96) is headed: τῷ δαυιδ ὅτε ἡ γῆ αὐτοῦ καθίσταται, which when translated is “[Pertaining] To David: When his land/earth is being brought to order.”

It is fascinating to see how the LXX translators/interpreters flipped this Psalm from originally being about Jehovah and now making it about a Davidic King or possibly even David himself. According to the LXX, the following is τῷ δαυιδ:

1: The Lord became king! Let the earth rejoice; let many islands be glad!
2: Cloud and thick darkness are around him; righteousness and judgment keep his throne straight.
3: Fire will go before him and blaze around his enemies.
4: His lightning gave light to the world; the earth saw and shook.
5: The mountains melted like wax from before the Lord, from before the Lord of all the earth.
6: The heavens proclaimed his righteousness, and all the peoples beheld his glory.
7: Let all who do obeisance to carved images be put to shame, those who make their boast in their idols.  Do obeisance to him, all his angels!
8: Zion heard and was glad, and the daughters of Judea rejoiced on account of your judgments, O Lord.
9: Because you are the Lord most high over all the earth, you were exalted far above all the gods.
10: You who love the Lord, hate evil! He guards the souls of his devout; from the hand of sinners he will rescue them.
11: Light dawned for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
12: Be glad in the Lord, O you righteous, and acknowledge the mention of his holiness!

In light of the Septuagint, this Psalm is no longer about Jehovah but about when the Davidic Kingdom is established.  It is David or a Davidic King whom is now ‘worshipped by angels’ (v. 7) and it is David or a Davidic King whom is “the Lord most high over all the earth.” (v. 9)

It may be the case, then, that in Hebrews 1:6 it is not actually Deuteronomy 32:43 in the LXX that is being quoted or alluded to, but perhaps Psalm 97 (96). Jesus as the Davidic King and Messiah is worshipped by angels as David is said to have been in Psalm 97 in the LXX. This fits nicely with the Royal psalms quotations in Hebrews 1.

A provocative suggestion might be that if it can be said that David established his kingdom, that is, his earth/land (as in the above Psalm), then it is not a real stretch to then say the Messiah established the earth/kingdom as in Hebrews 1:10. (see Motyer, “The Psalms Quotations in Hebrews 1,” pp. 18-21) (See also Psalm 95:5 in the LXX where the “Lord made the heavens,” which “Lord” is presumably David according to the superscript, since it is “[Pertaining] to David.” The “heavens” here would then have been “made” “When the house was being rebuilt after the captivity,” as the superscript says.)

 
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Posted by on November 28, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Navas-White Debate: Part I & Part II

Here’s part one of the Patrick Navas and James White debate. The introduction to the debate starts about 4:45 into the podcast. Navas’ opening statement at about 7:10. The second part of the debate may be found here.

 
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Posted by on November 25, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

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New European Version (NEV)

I recently became aware of the New European Version of the New Testament (NEV), which is evidently a revised version of the KJV and ASV, mixed in with some Christadelphian theology. Consider some of the more Christologically significant verses from the NEV with my highlighting (in canonical order):

John 1:1-3

In the beginning was the word {logos}, and the word was towards God, and the word was Divine. This existed, in the beginning, with God. All things created came into existence on account of it; and without it nothing created came into existence.

John 1:10

He was in the world, and though the world had originated on account of him, the world recognised him not.

John 8:58

Jesus said to them: Truly, truly, I say to you: I am of higher status than Abraham ever was.

1 Corinthians 8:6

yet to us there is only one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we are everything to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, for the sake of whom are all things, and we exist for His sake.

1 Corinthians 10:4

and did all drink the same spiritual drink. For they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them; and the rock represented Christ

Philippians 2:6-8

Who, though being in the mental image of God, did not consider grasping at being equal with God, but poured himself out, taking the mental attitude of a servant, and was the made just the same as all ordinary men. And being perceived as a normal man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Colossians 1:16

For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things have been created on account of him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2

has in these last times spoken to us in the Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, on account of whom also He structured the ages.

It seems that the preposition dia was consistently translated as anything but “through,” thus removing any sort of possible instrumentality, and thus, pre-existence.

 
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Posted by on November 23, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Deity of Christ: Patrick Navas and James White Debate

Patrick Navas author of Divine Truth or Human Tradition? (now in its Second Edition) will be having a debate with Dr. James White this upcoming Friday, November the 25th on Chris Date’s theopologetics podcast pertaining to issue of whether the New Testament teaches the D(d)eity of Christ. It’ll certainly be worth checking out.

Here is also Dr. James White’s critique of Patrick Navas’ book on his broadcast, the Dividing Line.

 
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Posted by on November 21, 2011 in Debate, James White, Trinity

 

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Coloe on John 14′s Temple Imagery

“During the final discourse, for the second time in the gospel, Jesus speaks of My Father’s House (14:2) with its many dwellings, and within the intimacy of his final meal Jesus transforms this image. The expression ‘my Father’s House’ was first applied to a building, the Jerusalem temple (2:16). A few verses later the temple imagery was reinterpreted in personal terms, as the physical body of Jesus (2:21). On the eve of his departure to the Father, the temple ‘house’ of the Father requires a further shift in meaning. Jesus could be called the ‘temple’ precisely because of the mutual indwelling of Father and Son. As God’s glory once resided in Israel’s temple, during the ministry of Jesus that glory was manifested in him (1:14; 2:11). With the end of his public ministry the image of the temple is widened to include the future community of believers.

Chapter 14 describes a series of relationships using forms of the verb to dwell.

  • The Father dwelling in Jesus (14:10)
  • The future dwelling of the Spirit Paraclete in the believers (14:17)
  • The dwelling of both Jesus and the Father with the believer (14:23)
  • Jesus dwelling with the disciples (14:25)

These series of divine dwellings are introduced with an image of the Father’s House and its many dwellings. Where, in chapter two, the temple image was applied to one person, Jesus, because of his singular indwelling relationship with the Father, in John 14 the image is extended to become the Household of the Father which will be constituted by the divine indwelling of believers. [In a footnote, Coloe,  notes that in the OT the expression “my father’s house” usually refers to a group of people making up a household, not a physical building.] The many dwellings of the Father’s household are a series of interpersonal relationships between the Father, Jesus, Paraclete and believers. The divine in dwellings in the midst of a believing community makes it appropriate to speak of the community as a living temple. In the departure of Jesus, the community is to become the new House/household of God.” (Pages 49-50 in her article, “Raising the Johannine Temple“)

 
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Posted by on November 18, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Daniel 8:10 and the “Host of Heaven”

In chapter 8 Daniel has a vision (v. 1-2) of a ram and a goat similar to the image below:

 

After the goat defeats the ram we are told in verse 10 the goat’s horn breaks, only to have another small horn come forth. This new horn is said to grow mighty:

(Daniel 8:10, NWT) And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down.

Daniel’s vision from 1-19 is explicated in 20-25. It is in Gabriel’s explanation of Daniel’s vision that he identifies the goat as “the king of Greece.” (v. 20) But who is the “army/host of the heavens” according to Gabriel’s interpretation?

Daniel 8:10 states the “army/host of the heavens” gets ‘trampled down’ whereas in Gabriel’s explanation in verse 24 states,

And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power. And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of [the] holy ones.

Those that get ‘trampled upon’ or ‘ruined’ are the “mighty ones” and the “people of the holy ones.”  Thus the identification of the “army of the heavens” is the “holy ones” or saints.

Further support of this identification of the saints with the “army of the heavens” in Daniel 8 is found in the Septuagint, the earliest exegetical tradition of Daniel 8 (that I’m aware of).

Daniel 8 from the LXX (Dan 8:9-12):

And out of one of them sprang one strong horn, and it prevailed, and it struck against the south and against the east and against the north. And it was raised unto the stars of the sky. And it was thrown down upon the earth from the stars and was trodden upon by them until the commander in chief delivers the captives. And the mountains, which were from eternity, were overthrown on account of it and their place and sacrifice were taken away. And he put it to the ground [upon the earth], and it prospered, and it emerged, and the sanctuary will be desolated. And sins were on the offering, and justice was

Daniel 8 from Theodotion (8:9-12):

And out of one of them came one strong horn, and it grew exceedingly great toward the south and toward the host. It became great all the way up to the host of heaven. And it fell upon the earth from the host and from the stars and trampled them under foot, even until the commander in chief delivers the captives. And sacrifice was overthrown on account of it. And it emerged, and things were prosperous for it, and the sanctuary will be desolated. And sin was given for an offering, and justice was thrown to the ground, and it acted, and it prospered.

While Daniel in the LXX lacks the phrase “host of heaven,” it does mention that the new horn struck against the east and the north, while Theodotion’s version interprets this as “toward the host.”  The “host of heaven” was to be trampled “until the commander in chief delivers the captives,” i. e., the captive Israelites who’s “sanctuary will be desolate.”

So what we have in the Greek version of Daniel is the earliest exegetical tradition supporting the identification of the “host of heaven” with Israelite saints. That God’s servants can be described as being “of heaven” is quite significant when it comes to interpreting Revelation and other “heaven” texts in the New Testament.

 
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Posted by on November 15, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

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Felker and Witness Discussion: Where Will Christians Spend Eternity?

Here’s a video of where Mike from The Apologetic Front discusses the eternal state of Christians with a Jehovah’s Witness.

 
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Posted by on November 15, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

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Beale’s NT Theology

Based on his Revelation commentary and his essays and book on Temple Theology, I can only imagine his NT Theology is going to be golden. :D

 
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Posted by on November 11, 2011 in Uncategorized

 
 
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